men vs women question

[pushitpullit]

Sarah,
When you were learning to play, did men players treat you as a equal? Did you have to do better than men to be considered as good as them? The reason that I ask is that I've been shooting okay. I beat men practicing and in tournaments. When it comes time to be acknowledged, people overlook me and say that the guys that I'm beating are better. Granted, I can say that they beat me at times, but I'm winning 75-80% of the time and beating them consistently in tournaments, but still nobody respects my game. Now some of them won't play me because they know I have a good chance to win. How frustrating is that? I can't even prove that I'm better unless I go after them in a tournament. Anyway, I wanted to know how I might be looking at all of this. Should I laugh and write it off as silly? Should I chase them down to play? Should I just blow it off because this is normal and it's them, not me?

Your expert opinion is appreciated

[dirtypool]

I've ran into a problem like this, I'm just not as good as you must be. I simply looked at players as people that I talk to and as ones that I don't. For the small price of a game of pool, you find out how quite a bit. At first I got mad,but then I just looked at it for what it was worth.

Dirtypool

[RichardInWisconsin]

If I may, I'd like to piggy-back a question for Sarah (or anyone else) into this topic.

I've only been starting to play seriously, and watching television matches, for about the last five or six months. So when it comes to women vs. men, is there any difference?

What I mean is that this seems like one of the few sports where success comes via control, touch and finesse - not power. Yet obviously tournaments have separate men and women divisions.

But are there any general advantages a male player would have over a female player, when it comes to a tournament and putting balls in pockets? Please don't flame me TOO much if this is a common question in the billiard community (I have a hard time imagining it isn't) but I have to ask. I'm not very hip to the internet scene (living in small town will do that) so apologies if I'm asking a question to which the answer can be found elsewhere.

Thanks for any replies,

-> Richard

[RichR]

I've only been starting to play seriously, and watching television matches, for about the last five or six months. So when it comes to women vs. men, is there any difference?

What I mean is that this seems like one of the few sports where success comes via control, touch and finesse - not power. Yet obviously tournaments have separate men and women divisions.

But are there any general advantages a male player would have over a female player, when it comes to a tournament and putting balls in pockets? Please don't flame me TOO much if this is a common question in the billiard community (I have a hard time imagining it isn't) but I have to ask. I'm not very hip to the internet scene (living in small town will do that) so apologies if I'm asking a question to which the answer can be found elsewhere.

Richard, you are correct, this is a common question that comes up periodically on the forums. However, I don't remember if it has been discussed on this forum and, with Sarah involved, it may be a good place to ask this question.

Per prior discussions, on other forums, I think you will find that there is no physical reason why women should not be playing as well as the men. If you believe the conclusion of the other forums, the difference in play is due more to history and mental attitude.
Simply put, men, in general, have been playing pool a lot longer than women. Historically, men have been exposed to pool at a much younger age and they have had more roll models to follow. It was definitely more acceptable for a male to play pool, as opposed to a female.
Also historically, men and boys are taught to compete at an early age and they develop the mental attitude to compete and win. For lack of a better term, they develop the "killer instinct". This attitude definitely gives men an advantage when playing pool, as well as doing a lot of other things.
Now, to bring this thinking up to the present, I'm sure you already know that women, and young girls, are being exposed to many sports and games at an earlier age. They are developing the skills necessary to play pool and, as a group, they are improving by leaps and bounds. Today, there are many young girls developing at the same rate as the young boys and they will grow to be champions, if they continue playing.
Today, there are more and more women entering "open" tournaments and doing well. Karen Corr has won a few Joss Tour events, against a predominantly male field, and she has finished high in others.
The bottom line is, there is no real reason why women can not compete with men in pool. I look forward to the day when every event is "open" to everyone and a male vs. female final is common.

[BoisdeRosie]

The bottom line is, there is no real reason why women can not compete with men in pool. I look forward to the day when every event is "open" to everyone and a male vs. female final is common.

TAP, TAP, TAP!!!

[garbageman]

a lot of pool is mental strategy (and GMan is definitely mental), but sometimes I believe that agressiveness (testosterone) is the difference in the two sexes when it comes to any competition.

most of my life's observations came in the classroom. years of teaching young adults gives me a perspective that's a little warped, I know. I play/have played in several leagues and quietly observe the mixed gender teams and how they "compete".

it's strange to see better female shooters lose to me. the only variable that I can see is they lack the agressive "gene". they compete well against other females, boyfriends, husbands but not against unrelated/older males. I would think that this was the defining factor, but for one reason : nearly all the females in these leagues are my former students. could it be that they still see me a an authority figure and think it would displease "teacher" if they did not miss shots and give me another shot at winning ?

...been trying for 20 plus years to convince these females that I'm not Mr. __ anymore after they are grown and married or whatever.

same thing with former male students; I seem to have their number at the table, although they are ranked higher in the leagues. still a few of them call me Mr.___. .Damn, I wish they would grow up and buy me a beer !

[cmrocc]

Richard, you are correct, this is a common question that comes up periodically on the forums. However, I don't remember if it has been discussed on this forum and, with Sarah involved, it may be a good place to ask this question.

Per prior discussions, on other forums, I think you will find that there is no physical reason why women should not be playing as well as the men. If you believe the conclusion of the other forums, the difference in play is due more to history and mental attitude.
Simply put, men, in general, have been playing pool a lot longer than women. Historically, men have been exposed to pool at a much younger age and they have had more roll models to follow. It was definitely more acceptable for a male to play pool, as opposed to a female.
Also historically, men and boys are taught to compete at an early age and they develop the mental attitude to compete and win. For lack of a better term, they develop the "killer instinct". This attitude definitely gives men an advantage when playing pool, as well as doing a lot of other things.
Now, to bring this thinking up to the present, I'm sure you already know that women, and young girls, are being exposed to many sports and games at an earlier age. They are developing the skills necessary to play pool and, as a group, they are improving by leaps and bounds. Today, there are many young girls developing at the same rate as the young boys and they will grow to be champions, if they continue playing.
Today, there are more and more women entering "open" tournaments and doing well. Karen Corr has won a few Joss Tour events, against a predominantly male field, and she has finished high in others.
The bottom line is, there is no real reason why women can not compete with men in pool. I look forward to the day when every event is "open" to everyone and a male vs. female final is common.

I have to say RichR hit the bullseye with this one.

[RichR]

I have to say RichR hit the bullseye with this one.

Thanks Chad. I try.

[cheeseroller]

Richard, you are correct, this is a common question that comes up periodically on the forums. However, I don't remember if it has been discussed on this forum and, with Sarah involved, it may be a good place to ask this question.

Per prior discussions, on other forums, I think you will find that there is no physical reason why women should not be playing as well as the men. If you believe the conclusion of the other forums, the difference in play is due more to history and mental attitude.
Simply put, men, in general, have been playing pool a lot longer than women. Historically, men have been exposed to pool at a much younger age and they have had more roll models to follow. It was definitely more acceptable for a male to play pool, as opposed to a female.
Also historically, men and boys are taught to compete at an early age and they develop the mental attitude to compete and win. For lack of a better term, they develop the "killer instinct". This attitude definitely gives men an advantage when playing pool, as well as doing a lot of other things.
Now, to bring this thinking up to the present, I'm sure you already know that women, and young girls, are being exposed to many sports and games at an earlier age. They are developing the skills necessary to play pool and, as a group, they are improving by leaps and bounds. Today, there are many young girls developing at the same rate as the young boys and they will grow to be champions, if they continue playing.
Today, there are more and more women entering "open" tournaments and doing well. Karen Corr has won a few Joss Tour events, against a predominantly male field, and she has finished high in others.
The bottom line is, there is no real reason why women can not compete with men in pool. I look forward to the day when every event is "open" to everyone and a male vs. female final is common.

I conquer...

[Sarah Ellerby]

Hi:

I was actually fortunate enough to have two of the best male players in the world traveling with me when I was in the UK. They both taught me so much and it was also reassuring to have them both at all my events.

There's been times when I've felt like the guys have not respected my game enough to compete as a Professional with them on their tour. This happened back in the UK but I never take it personally.

You have nothing to prove to anyone except yourself. If you respect yourself and your game, then you shouldn't care about what the guys say. It wastes energy that doesn't need to be wasted. It's not you! Sometimes guys fear they will get beat by a girl but those types have their own insecurities to deal with and that's not your problem.

Once you progress with your game, you will attract a higher caliber of player that is as dedicated and passionate about the game as you are and you can learn from each other.

You should see all this as "positive" and move on. Keep up the good work

Sarah

Sarah,
When you were learning to play, did men players treat you as a equal? Did you have to do better than men to be considered as good as them? The reason that I ask is that I've been shooting okay. I beat men practicing and in tournaments. When it comes time to be acknowledged, people overlook me and say that the guys that I'm beating are better. Granted, I can say that they beat me at times, but I'm winning 75-80% of the time and beating them consistently in tournaments, but still nobody respects my game. Now some of them won't play me because they know I have a good chance to win. How frustrating is that? I can't even prove that I'm better unless I go after them in a tournament. Anyway, I wanted to know how I might be looking at all of this. Should I laugh and write it off as silly? Should I chase them down to play? Should I just blow it off because this is normal and it's them, not me?

Your expert opinion is appreciated